Episode 54: Can you describe your perfect book hero or heroine? -With Jennifer Ziegler
Welcome! In today’s episode, Grace Lin and Jennifer Ziegler answer this kid question: Can you describe your perfect book hero or heroine?
TRANSCRIPTS:
Hello. I'm Grace Lin, children's book author and illustrator of many books, including the middle grade novel, When the Sea Turned to Silver, and the picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star. Today, I'm here with Jennifer Ziegler, the author of the Brewster Triplet series, the series that started with The Revenge of the Flower Girls. Hi, Jennifer.
Jennifer Ziegler: Hi, Grace.
Grace Lin: How are you?
Jennifer Ziegler: I'm good today. How are you doing good?
Grace Lin: Good. I'm having a lot of technical problems, but I think we are all set now.
Jennifer Ziegler: I think some of those technical problems were on my end. Thank you for being so patient.
Grace Lin: Well, that just means the answer for today's questions is just going to be that much better because we are so ready for today's question. Are you ready?
Jennifer Ziegler: I'm ready.
Grace Lin: Okay. Today's question is from a person named Kim. And Kim asks.
Kim: Can you describe your perfect hero or heroine?
Grace Lin: Can you describe your perfect book hero or heroine?
Jennifer Ziegler: Wow. Well Kim, I have an inkling that maybe you are a writer because this is quite an interesting challenge, but I think I'm up for it. And I think it's really important to understand the difference between a hero and a protagonist. A protagonist is a main character of a story and a hero, and sometimes we say heroin and shero and all these other terms. Sometimes we say hero of a story, but I personally don't like to use that word because hero, I think too often, we think of people who fly around in capes and save people. And heroes in lots of legends and myths and stories like that are almost perfect people. They're archetypes. They're who we want to be. Heroes always do the right thing for the right reason, but main characters and protagonists should be more like us.
And let's face it. We often do the wrong thing for the right reason. We make mistakes, or sometimes we do the right thing, but it's for the wrong reason. So for example, in my triplets book, in Revenge of the Flower Girls, the main part of the story is the girls are trying to stop their older sister's wedding. And that's, let's face it, that's a mean thing to do, but they're doing this wrong thing for, you could argue they're doing it for the right reasons because they think that their sister is about to make a terrible mistake. They're very, very worried about her. No one is listening to them because they're 11, and they think that's not fair. And they're really just trying to help their sister. And when you think about it, a lot of times, this is what characters do. They do the wrong thing, but for the right reasons.
Harry Potter, he sneaks out of his dorm. He fights people, but he's always doing it, well not always, but he's usually doing it for the right reason. So for me, the perfect hero of a story wouldn't be a hero at all. It would just be a regular person who makes mistakes and learns from them. For me personally, I like main characters who have a good heart, who are making lots of mistakes and maybe they're dealing with anger or fear, but they at heart really care about people and are going to find a better way to meet their goal, one that doesn't hurt people. And they're just going to learn from it. That's my favorite. I also like to laugh. I love books that make me laugh. So I hope that answers Kim's question.
Grace Lin: Well, that's a great answer, Jennifer. What I thought was so fascinating about your answer is how you talk about the difference between a protagonist and a hero or a heroine. And I actually did not make that distinction when I first read this question because I was just thinking protagonist, or the main character, because I always think the hero of the story is the main character. So it's such an interesting way of making that distinction. But as you were talking, it made me think for those who are listening in real time, we are actually recording this in April of 2020 in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic. And so when you were talking about heroes, I was thinking about how, yes, we so often think heroes are those in capes, but if anything, what we're learning right now, heroes are the people who are stocking our groceries in the grocery store. Heroes are the ones who are showing up for work at the hospitals and being the janitors and cleaning those hospital rooms and all those things.
And I was thinking, actually when you were talking about the protagonist, who just is learning things and trying to do things with the right reason, I was thinking maybe that's what makes a hero. Just somebody who keeps trying to do the right thing all the time.
Jennifer Ziegler: Right. I think anytime we do the right thing for the right reason, we are being heroic. I mean, especially when it's something that can hurt us, when we're taking a risk. And we all have that potential.
Grace Lin: Yeah. I was thinking, how would I answer this question? And I was saying, I think my perfect hero or heroine is somebody who keeps trying to do the right thing. And maybe they end up not doing the right thing, but they're trying to do the right thing with each decision that they make.
Jennifer Ziegler: Oh, that's a perfect way to put it. Yeah, yeah.
Grace Lin: Because it makes things interesting too, because even the reader, when the reader is like, "No, no, no, no," we understand why you're doing that, but no, no, no.
Jennifer Ziegler: Yes. I mean, that's the best any of us can do, is just try and love ourselves. And so if we make a mistake and we try and we fail and we try and we fail, that's part of being human. The worst thing we can do is just stop trying.
Grace Lin: So in some ways, the perfect book hero or heroine is just a character that acts human.
Jennifer Ziegler: Right. I like for my characters to be flawed. I don't want them to be too perfect because I want to be able to relate to them, because news flash, I don't know if anyone knows this, but I'm not perfect. I keep trying to get better and I will continue to keep trying probably for the rest of my life. So I can really relate to people in books and I can learn from them because a lot of times some of the mistakes they make might be really similar to some that I am making, and it can really make me contemplate myself and my own circumstances.
Grace Lin: I think that's what makes the book so interesting too. I mean, that's what makes the books interesting for people to read. Right?
Jennifer Ziegler: Right, right. I think, yeah, it's like we have extra lives when we read books because we get to go on these journeys and follow along with these people. Characters in books were some of my best friends growing up.
Grace Lin: So in conclusion, Kim, the perfect book hero or heroine is actually one that is imperfect.
Jennifer Ziegler: Right, exactly.
Grace Lin: So thank you so much, Jennifer, for answering this question and thank you Kim for asking it.
Jennifer Ziegler: Yes. Thank you, Kim. Thank you so much. And Grace, thank you. Thank you for doing this show. I have to say when I was growing up and I was learning how to write and I was reading a lot and thinking in stories, I would have loved this podcast so much. So I am so glad you're doing it.
Grace Lin: Thank you. I hope the listeners feel the same way.
Jennifer Ziegler: I'm sure they do.
Grace Lin: Thanks so much. Bye.
Jennifer Ziegler: You take care. Bye, bye.
Today’s BOOK REVIEW comes from Lea. She will be reviewing “Wings of Fire” by Tui T. Sutherland.
The book I would like to talk about is Wings of Fire series by Tui Sutherland. It's about five baby dragons that go on an adventure to fulfill a made up prophecy. The dragons don't know that it is fake at first. The books are told from the Dragon's point of view, and they call people scavengers. The dragons think people must fall over a lot because we only have two legs. I like this book because it's really exciting, and it's so interesting to read about these tribes of dragons.
Thank you Lea!
More about today’s authors:
Like the Brewster triplets, Jennifer Ziegler is a native Texan and a lover of family, history, barbecue, and loyal dogs. Although she only has one sister, she does know what it is like to have four kids living in the same house. She is the author of several books for young people, including Sass & Serendipity, and How Not to Be Popular.
Jennifer lives in Austin, Texas with her husband, author Chris Barton, and their four children.
Grace Lin, a NY Times bestselling author/ illustrator, won the Newbery Honor for Where the Mountain Meets the Moon and her picture book, A Big Mooncake for Little Star, was awarded the Caldecott Honor. Grace is an occasional commentator for New England Public Radio , a video essayist for PBS NewsHour (here & here), and the speaker of the popular TEDx talk, The Windows and Mirrors of Your Child’s Bookshelf. She is the co-host of the podcast Book Friends Forever, a kidlit podcast about friendship and publishing (geared for adults). Find her facebook, instagram , twitter ( @pacylin) or sign up for her author newsletter HERE.
Special thanks to the High Five Books & Art Always Bookstore, Ms. Carleton’s 2nd grade class at Jackson Street School for their help with our kid questions and reviews.
